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Illuminati
Football Freak
3324 posts
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Posted - 9/7/2008 12:13:56 PM |
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i call Shenanigans
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wiseguys traded mcnabb for kyle orton... ? am i missing something? i normally hate to judge or get in the middle of trades, and certainly do not want to invoke the Shenanigans rule, but this one warrants it. it is so far out of balance that i don't think it is justifiable. McNabb went in the 3rd round in our 12-team draft last night, and Kyle Orton wasn't even drafted. clearly, this is not a reasonable trade.
i officially call for a Shenanigans vote and for the trade to be negated. |
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Illuminati
Football Freak
3324 posts
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Posted - 9/7/2008 7:48:43 PM |
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the Ballot Box
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| there is an official ballot box to vote on the Shenanigans issue... everyone not involved in the trade can vote, and if five No's are registered then the Shenanigans declaration is official. |
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Flayers
Scout
76 posts
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Posted - 9/7/2008 8:21:30 PM |
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Hold on a sec...
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Were there not two other players involved in the trade? Looks like Scheffler is a backup while Olsen's stock is rising?
We should have someone do a more in-depth analysis of this trade before calling for a vote, I think. |
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Illuminati
Football Freak
3324 posts
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Posted - 9/7/2008 9:10:21 PM |
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the two TE's are a virtual "push"
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Olson isn't even the #1 TE in Chicago, and both TE's are average players at their positions. The crux of the trade is all about the QB's and there is no way that any reasonable argument can be made that Orton is even remotely close to McNabb. Orton isn't even drafted in most leagues.
Also, Chris has stated that he was doing it "to help out a friend." Giving McNabb and getting Orton in return is ridiculous on its face, and to have "help a friend" be part of the motivation exposes it as a bad trade. |
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Flayers
Scout
76 posts
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Posted - 9/7/2008 9:21:09 PM |
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I agree with Keith's analysis
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TE's probably are a wash, and this trade is not at all balanced.
The irony is that Wiseguys had Brady (out for season?) and McNabb before the questionable trade. I have a feeling that now Chris would love to have this trade overturned.
Anyone else care to chime in? |
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Shockers
Towel Boy
23 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 8:02:39 AM |
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My two cents
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| I have been commish many years in other leagues. It has always been my feeling that if two active owners make a trade, what right do I have to tell them they can't do it. I am sure both owners have their reasons for making the trade. While the trade looks lopsided to me and I would never agree to it, there are lopsided trades made in the NFL all the time. The fact that Brady went down after this trade is justice enough. What it comes down to for me is whether or not the two owners are working together to scam the rest of us. It doesn't appear that way to me. I think before you have a vote, you should let the two people involved in the trade state their case. Just my opinion. |
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Whiskey Ducks
Water Boy
42 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 5:55:50 PM |
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Opinion
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| Hey guys- Just wanted to weigh in. Chris and I have playing fantasy for years and have been screwed by people trying to get away with something. Believe you me there was no collusion and Chris would stab me in the back as fast as anyone else (he is a don). I realize in retrospect this looks unusual. Chris only got Mcnabb, b/c he drove the price up and got stuck w/him. He would have only used him once b/f the injury and doesn't like him. He did like Orton more than me and I do think the value of Olsen is higher this season. I also think Mcnabb is fragile and is probably 1 hit away from ending his career. I waited for FA on Sat. and Sun. as promised and b/c I didn't want to open up the season with either QB's I called Dan, Keith, Chris and Will to see if they would be willing to trade. Chris & Will made offers. Again, in retro' this looks weird but I take pride in my team and try to be competetive. Shockers are right, bad trades are made all the time (Randy Moss for a 4th rounder?). Keith, when I logged on to the site yesterday the first thing I saw was the voting thing and I thought you were being sarcastic so I mistakenly voted. Not until after reading the board did I realize the gravity of the situation. Thanks for hearing my side. |
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Flayers
Scout
76 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 6:12:50 PM |
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Time to vote?
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I have read the last two posts, and I am willing to believe that this was an honest trade. I can see how one might perceive McNabb as fragile, given his recent history.
I did receive a call from the Ducks about a trade, but was not available.
I have voted to approve the trade.
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Rick W.
Towel Boy
23 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 7:43:46 PM |
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My vote
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| I accidently voted no, thinking that the question was whether the trade whould be overturned. Please make my vote yes. My reasons were given in my previous post. Thanks. |
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Illuminati
Football Freak
3324 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 8:12:41 PM |
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it is important to note
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that this is not about whether or not someone has the worst of intentions. Shenanigans is not restricted to the most evil of scenarios. instead, in this case it is about two things that combine themselves:
1) on its face, it's absolutely ridiculous to equate McNabb to Orton. a Top 5 QB vs an undrafted one? let's be real. as for the argument regarding McNabb's "fragility," give me a break!
2) more importantly, Chris came out and admitted that he did this because he "wanted to help out a friend." this is the biggest reason of all to vote against the trade. it is totally unacceptable for this to be a motivation, and it is completely unfair to everyone else in the league. |
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Whiskey Ducks
Water Boy
42 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 9:19:47 PM |
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?
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| Keith, I completely understand, but still disagree. Would this scenario be any different if we had our FA period as was foretold? Most likely yes. I know it looks weird again but Chris and I are cool with it, and in the future I will try to take into account the feelings & interests of the other teams in the league that I am trying to beat. |
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Illuminati
Football Freak
3324 posts
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Posted - 9/8/2008 10:29:57 PM |
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are you kidding me?
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you are stating that FA on saturday would have affected this scenario? since you insist on putting that out there and repeatedly doing so, let's cut to the chase...
then let me ask you, David, who would you have picked up in FA? there were no starting QB's available in the pool, and as of the team that you drafted on TUESDAY you had no QB's of real value except Ryan's upside.
were you relying on FA to get a starting QB? wow. that's, um, really brilliant.
since you insist on throwing the FA issue in my face over and over, let me ask again: who would you have picked in FA to improve your team?
seriously, David, tell me your FA solution. either that, or stop throwing that out there like it is any sort of reasonable justification.
you should have bought a starting QB in the auction instead of keep insisting that the technical problems in saturday's FA forced you to make an "Orton for McNabb" trade. that trade was absurd on its face, plus Chris straight up admitted it was done because of friendship.
and for you, Chris, since you have admitted it was done for friendship, would you have traded away McNabb for a song to a team that you were not friends with?
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Wiseguys
Towel Boy
34 posts
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Posted - 9/9/2008 7:21:36 PM |
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What has been said is pretty much all true. To be honest with you I never really wanted Brady or McNabb, I was trying to up the price in the auction and got stuck. I guess their are a lot worse players to get stuck with.
Would I have traded a player for a song to another team that I did not know. No
I guess on some lists McNabb might be a top 5, the two I just looked at had him rated 9 and 12, Orton 35 and 43. As for him being drafted in the third round in another league, thats other leagues. The 12 man league I participated in he went in the 6th round 4th pick, website crashed after the 12th so I have no info on Orton
As the discussion I had with Dave Sunday am, the only thing FA would have done was a chance for me to get Cassell, before the first game, my guess is that his value has gone up. I should have got him during the auction but was looking to fill out my starters first, once the money ran low.
Before the season I viewed McNabb as a one week starter, week 4 NE bye. If Brady scores 0 and walks away healthy, even with McNabb's game, Brady would still be the starter for a while, I spent a third of my allowance on him.
I looked at Orton the same way a bye week starter.
I like Olsen, being new to an auction I probably waited to long to pick up a TE, Olsen was not the highest I had ranked, but he is one I liked. I had the TE form Denver last year in another league and I had Olsen ranked above him.
Bottom line I made the trade. I was not under the influence nor did I have a gun to my head. Did I ask for other player's from Dave yes. This is what it came to. As I told Dave Sunday Night when he called I'm cool with it. Was it a bad trade for me, in hindsight yes.
It was not our intention to scam anyone. A friend called and I answered.
It's my bed to lay in and I have no problems with it.
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Illuminati
Football Freak
3324 posts
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Posted - 9/10/2008 5:14:40 AM |
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a league vote was called for and a quorum reached
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the league has voted and five owners have voted No on this trade. voting "No" is not something that anyone wants to do, so the fact that five owners have done so says volumes.
the trade is negated. |
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