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Posted - 6/12/2017 6:58:38 AM |
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Let's also talk money
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| I'm not as inclined to drop $75 a year if the future focus of Ragnarok is on getting more teams into the playoffs. I'd rather spend an additional $75 on draft weekend and just be done with financing a weighted chance to make a weighted playoff. Maybe that's just me. But it's for real - professional leagues have profit sharing for precisely this reason. In lieu of actual profits, we just stop paying in. |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 7:26:41 AM |
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I very much agree with this
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| Now that we are a loser league, let's spend the $75 towards an even more swanky house. There is no reason to "gamble" money anymore. People's feelings and our ability to "share the glory of winning " is obviously more important |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 7:48:00 AM |
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why don't we just end the league?
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i haven't been calling people names or questioning anyone's integrity. but i sure have been on the receiving end of it.
the level of acrimony and disrespect is pretty clear. what's the point of even continuing the league? this is not a facetious question but a real one.
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Posted - 6/12/2017 8:21:51 AM |
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Why?
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| Because someone's fellings are hurt? C'mon man. Pull your socks up. If we truly want a great league, are we so quick to give it up when someone's ideas are questioned? The same person who came up with the schoolyard idea, came up with the weighted system. Neither fixes the so-called "problem " of competitiveness. I personally have made the playoffs three times in 20 years. My feelings are not hurt. Nor do I think are set up as it stands is unfair. The one thing that would have the most leveling affect on our league is readjusting our draft order. But do we want that? What I don't want is one individual making a list of the divisions and how they should be. I would much rather have myself controlling my own destiny. As described, the weighted system would be a mathematical equation derived from the intelligence of one individual. The important factors that would make up that mathematical equation would be derived from one individual. I just don't think that's right. And denying the information gathered by a poll by saying that it's not "proper" sounds a lot like some supposedly "democratic" countries and how they do elections. If we are to be a league together as friends first, as competitors second, then we need to reach a mutual agreement. Not a agreement decided by an individual. So if anybody wants to blow this thing up, be my guest. But I don't. |
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Head of Scouting
Gjallarhorn Master
529 posts
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Fu: 99.57 |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 9:46:25 AM |
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Just a few notes
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Of why I don't like either system.
I don't like the school yard draft system for the following reasons.
1) The worst owners pick the divisions and hence determines the direction of the league. Do we really want the those who have not shown to be as competent in Fantasy Football determine the direction of our league for the next few years. (and I say that as one of those owners who may be doing the picking) Goodness Sake! we should be asking those who are doing well to devise methods to help the rest of the league.
2) If the divisions work out as Keith has theorized has anything really changed? The four most successful owners are still probably going to be in four different divisions and still successful in their new divisions.
*Notes The argument of someone having their feelings getting hurt, I'm not sure has much validity. Also lets get drunk and pick may be the worst argument for anything ever!
Why I don't like weighted system
1) Is it fair? I know I wrote the post about the NFL having a weighted system but should Stu or Sean be punished for being good?
*Note I don't think the timetable argument is relevant.
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Posted - 6/12/2017 9:50:53 AM |
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Less interested in looking backward, more interested in moving forward
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I don't know that anything good/productive can come out of analyzing forum posts vs. the poll vs. individual conversations. The likely outcome from this would appear to be emotional responses, accusations, miscommunications and misinterpretations, and ultimately hurt feelings. If that could lead anywhere positive, it'd be one thing, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Bottom line, what can be said and done moving forward to bring about improvements we can all get behind, for a league we all love?
As far as I know, the weighted realignment concept was brought about to address concerns about league competitiveness. Addressing league competitiveness appears to have unanimous support, whereas weighted realignment does not. League competitiveness is the issue for us to resolve, and weighted realignment is only a part of this issue, not the issue in its entirety. Can we all agree on this so far?
Being "competitive" is also not only about being the champion, and not only about winning. It's also a mindset and a work ethic, and most importantly, it's about one's standing relative to the entire league, not just the top owner or two. When I think about what a "competitive league" means, I think about a league where all 12 teams BEGIN with reasonably similar chances of success. I use "begin" because once the season begins, free agency, trading, and lineup decisions become each owner's responsibility--we cannot, and should not control those in-season factors, but we absolutely can make each season's starting point more equitable for all teams.
To do this, we should be talking about ways to START each season at a more competitive and fair level. At its purest form, this would involve doing away with franchise players and rookie keepers and simply reversing the draft order so the champion drafts last and the last place finisher drafts first the following season. However, I don't think this is advisable due to the following reasons:
a) this would remove a significant degree of strategy and fun--from franchise/rookie selection strategy to draft strategy to trade strategy to roster management, etc.
b) this would make tanking a far too viable option
c) this would make our league like most other leagues
I'm reasonably confident most of us would feel the same way about this, though I could be wrong.
However, there is still a way to vastly improve competitiveness at the beginning of each season while still keeping franchise players and rookie keepers, discouraging tanking, and doing so in a uniquely "Ragnarok" way. To rehash:
1st pick: 7th place finisher
2nd pick: 8th place finisher
3rd pick: 9th place finisher
4th pick: 10th place finisher
5th pick: 11th place finisher
6th pick: 12th place finisher
7th pick: 6th place finisher
8th pick: 5th place finisher
9th pick: 4th place finisher
10th pick: 3rd place finisher
11th pick: 2nd place finisher
12th pick: 1st place finisher
This method would give all 12 teams something to play for. The losers' bracket would be motivated to win because they're all playing for high draft picks. The winner's bracket would still be motivated to win because of eternal glory and cash rewards. And the end result would be a draft order that prevents tanking while still taking significant steps toward leveling the playing field from year to year.
Therefore, before we rush to institute major changes, I've yet to hear anyone (other than my boring self) address this point about weighted realignment:
the best teams are still going to draft first, still get the best franchise players, etc. Under weighted realignment, the bottom teams don't get better--we're simply letting one of them make the playoffs (with what will still be an inferior roster with a lower chance of winning, as by definition they'd be coming out of the lowest division). We'd be slapping lipstick on a pig here--again, in my opinion.
I'm not married to the idea of revising the draft order as a way of addressing competitiveness, but I a) strongly prefer it compared to weighted realignment for reasons previously stated, and b) I'd scrap the revised draft order concept in a heartbeat if someone else suggested a better alternative.
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Head of Scouting
Gjallarhorn Master
529 posts
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Fu: 99.57 |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 9:53:53 AM |
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Still spit balling here
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| What about shortening the season by two weeks? Thereby not giving as much relevancy to which division a team is in. No longer does Sean get two easy wins each year because he's playing Dave twice. |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 10:19:51 AM |
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First to Keith, then to everyone
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Keith, I was trying to be a dick this morning. That doesn't help anybody. It just makes me a dick. It does make me a dick who feels a little better after lashing out, but I should know better. Please forgive or ignore me.
To everyone, I think Sean's draft order is a stroke of genius. Gives some solid benefit to last year's non-playoff teams while not producing much of a downside that I can see. Presumably this order as suggested would be the order for picking draft slots still, so that people up top can move around as they see fit? I've come to enjoy the draft slot picking.
Also, I really don't want to lose franchise players and rookies. Not sure it's really on the table, but seeing it posted about makes me want to weigh in. FPs and Rookies are of my favorite parts of this league. I recognize that I'm pleading for something that is currently to my benefit (LeVeon!!!) which can be a bit questionable, but I loved chasing that future star even when saddled with Terrell Davis post-ACL surgery back in 2000, so I hope I've still got legitimacy here. Anyway, I know I'd be sad to lose the FP/Rookie component. Just putting it out there.
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Posted - 6/12/2017 10:37:03 AM |
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Still Here
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Gentlemen,
I have been following the posts and shifted my position no less than 3 times. Sorry for not chiming in, but I think we have opinions covered. Love this league, recommend there be no more talk of dismantling the league. Put me in any division you like, I will still not have a QB. Best, Joe |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 11:47:50 AM |
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Dickish too
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Guilty as charged with the League name change post. Of course I don't want that. It has recently felt like those moments when we're all in the living room before the draft and we're all taking at once (only over a period of a week or two). It's a complex conversation. I think I was trying to be comic relief. That rarely works on a message board when emotions are high. I'll say again, that I never liked the SYP, even last year. But I'd do it. And I've been reading all of the posts.
Personally, my feelings have never been hurt. Ever. I'm not seeking an easier way for me to get in the playoffs. The Weighted system has just always seemed fresher, and connected. But we still have never spitballed on what criteria we would weigh/divide teams.
I don't think anyone is going to be like the Jets, Browns, or Rams and tank a whole season to get a higher pick next year. I refuse to believe that’s a strategy any of us would employ. Maybe I'm wrong...
I think most people want to keep the FP, rookies, and pick your draft slot. I also have been swayed to understand that the draft order may have a stronger connection with the core of each team. Thereby, making more teams "competitive" rather than the "money winners" also getting the first "slices of pie" and I hear that.
I'm down to move the conversation in that direction, if we so say. That seems more of an evolution move than realignment, at this point. But in a different way. (I’ll get to that.) At the end of it all, we are going to draft who we want, or who's available. After that, injury, wife beaters, DUI's, drugs, and player contracts will muddy it up quick enough for us. I think it would be a weird experimentation year unless we are committed to stick with some way for a few years (I know, that's been said. I'm saying a lot that has already been said). In the spirit of transparency, I'm saying:
*I'm not picking the WTS to just be contrary to the SYP. I just haven't heard any compelling information to totally get behind it.
*The criteria of said WTS is unknown, which makes it less appealing for any owner behind SYP, and probably some who voted for the WTS. But I do believe that a tiered division MAKES FOR MORE COMPELLING ACTUAL GAMES THROUGHOUT EVERY WEEK - unless your entire team goes on the DL. I think that's the detail that some of us aren't doing. Propel yourself into mid November, past September and the draft. You have a couple of games left, probably divisional (at least one, if not both). And Koo is actually right. What is competitive? It may not matter if your team can't win but a handful of games. But this is where the payout comes with the WTS. It’s not the draft. It comes with actually playing (the season!) every game as prepared as you can be. The beautiful thing about FF is that we don't have control over every component. If historically, you are with two owners that win about the same number of games (historically!) then you are still playing for a Championship! Don’t tell me we’re all JUST doing this for the corn hole. Don’t answer that Kent.
*Bottom line (as I see it. This is the $ paragraph!): A new draft order affects the BEGINNING of the season coming out of the gate (Why even realign???). A WTS realignment affects you team because of your SCHEDULE. Maybe THAT hasn't been said. And which two teams you "bunk with" over multiple games, surely has a hand in where you land in the the "winners” or "losers" bracket. Doing both (draft order and realignment) isn't a bad idea, and both still have strong impacts (in different valid ways) on the outcome of the season. We can't make owners be more competitive. If you draft all Bills players, or Chiefs players, for example, because that's FUN for you, no amount of tweaking or rule changes will alter those selections, or outcomes. They will be what they will. BUT that's not tanking either, and I think we can all agree with that. Just play a full roster week to week; that's all we can ask for.
*I can get behind a new draft order. I think is silly to talk of not throwing in for prize money.
*I think it's silly to assume owners would give up in fantasy football any given year to be looking ahead in that same fantasy football league, and have to look us in the face and work with those owners with any validity the next year. Actually, some have tried, but they ain’t here no mo.
*This is the best league ever, which is why we are spending large amounts of energy in early June for September.
I'm not sure I offered any solutions. Wait. I didn't. But I hope this is clearer on where Burnsville stands.
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Posted - 6/12/2017 12:35:41 PM |
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I'll add one more small piece...
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...that the Weighted realignment doesn't reward losers. None of us are losers because we're all in Ragnarok. There's about 136 people that are waiting for anyone of us to quit or die to get in!
The last decade has historically had a field of around four or five consistent teamsfor variuos reasons that may or may not have to do with any of this. But the field is 12. 12 teams should always have a shot. 12 That doesn't water down competition.
It's a league of...12.
TOUGH!
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Coach Cowher Tomlin
Football Freak
997 posts
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Fu: 100.96 |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 1:38:30 PM |
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Just asking
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| Are we twelve? What's up with Dat? He is listed as having voted for the weighted system but I have not seen hide nor hair of him since early in the last season. Is he still a valid owner after tanking all last year? |
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phattyDat
Tape Junkie
64 posts
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Fu: 74.11 |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 1:44:57 PM |
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Haha, Nice Pun...
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"What's up with Dat"
I'm here, skulking around in the darkness.... Honestly, a lot of posts.... still plan on replying my 2c.
But this league will be the only league I'm in for the season. My only priority.
:-) |
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Posted - 6/12/2017 1:57:07 PM |
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Dat's great news
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| Glad you're in, man. |
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Head of Scouting
Gjallarhorn Master
529 posts
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Fu: 99.57 |
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Posted - 6/13/2017 6:20:21 PM |
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Dat's not all,
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| Come draft weekend one quarter of the Ragnarok family will be at its northern outpost. |
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