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Skullsplitters
Football Freak
3322 posts
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Posted - 12/2/2008 7:35:19 AM |
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Sounds bites are nice...
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... but what about the children?
i think the results of this season expose the weakness in the our old school approach to standings being only determined by head to head matchups. the highest scoring team in the league, which some could rightfully argue is the "best" team in the league, did not make the playoffs due to a rigid HTH system.
while i am a big fan of most of our systems and would like to see our traditional approaches continue (such as with our unique scoring system), there are times when it is good to step back and reevaluate what we have in place.
we started this league way back in 1997 when dinasaurs roamed the earth, and fantasy football has evolved much since those early days. a new trend in many hardcore leagues and most of the national professional fantasy leagues is to utilize a Victory Point system that combines HTH with a "meta game" against everyone else in the league each week. these systems still emphasis HTH play, but they recognize that mathematical "clumping" happens (proven via chaos theory) and that a hybrid approach results in the best standings, standings that are actually reflective of where teams are relative to each other.
so while a hardcore HTH sounds tough and gritty and old school cool, we should get past the sound-bite-driven appeal of that and really look at its hollow nature. it would be one thing if in our HTH matchups we could actually impact our opponent's score, but the reality is that we cannot affect our opponent's score in any way whatsoever. logically, it's not really a defendable position but it is only an emotional one.
HTH is still integral to creating a fun system and so no matter what we decide it is not going anywhere. but with seeing the Blast's fate it is clear that the HTH needs to be mitigated slightly by other considerations if we really want the best six teams to make the playoffs each year.
there are a few options we can consider for injecting Victory Points if we choose to do so. HTH would still be in place, but there would be a VP column in the league standings. each week, VP's would be earned by HTH results as well as comparing a team's score vs everyone else in the league. the formula that we would use for VP's would weigh HTH as heavy or as light as we wish, but at least we'd have a balancing mechanism in place that would result in the best six teams in the playoffs.
a couple of approaches could be:
A) Heavy HTH emphasis
3 VP for a HTH win
2 VP if you are in the top 3 in scoring that week
1 VP if you are in positions 4-6 in scoring for that week
B) Lighter HTH
1 VP for a HTH win
1 VP for being in the top 6 in scoring for that week
for this season, i've been playing in leagues that have these approaches and i kind of like the A) option where HTH is weighed a bit heavier but we still have a recognition of the positive role that VP's bring.
i hope that everyone can bring an open mind to this situation and recognize that what we really want is for the six best teams to be in the playoffs. |
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Hitmen
General Manager
339 posts
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Posted - 12/2/2008 8:04:58 AM |
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not really......
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I think it was an obvious fluke that the highest scoring team didn't make the play-offs. Has that ever happened in past? I don't think so. Will it happen again? Likely not. What weakness is exposed by with the teams with 6 best records getting into playoffs?
I think the Giants last year were 8 and 8 heading into the play-offs. There were multiple AFC teams with better records who didn't make the play-offs.
lets judge the system as a whole and not just on a one time statistical anomally. |
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Skullsplitters
Football Freak
3322 posts
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Posted - 12/2/2008 8:19:41 AM |
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yep, it's happened before
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in Aces High, which has the exact same scoring system and number of teams as Ragnarok, i once had the highest scoring team and did not make the playoffs.
and it's not just about only the top scoring team where this matters - it's with the bubble teams where this really has the biggest impact.
keep in mind that comparing an NFL team's record to fantasy is kind of like apples and oranges. the analogy of the NFL HTH vs fantasy HTH doesn't really hold up because in the NFL every team has a direct and physical affect on their opponent in every game. in fantasy, you can't affect your opponent's score in any way whatsover. the HTH construct is a virtual, not physical, one.
that, and we all know the AFC is WEAK baby!
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Posted - 12/2/2008 9:13:56 AM |
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As The Highest Scoring Team...
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i do not like the victory point system. if i had started the right players, even 1diffrent player( l. white) i would have won the game. sometimes teams lose and score alot of points. the HTH system is the best because it rests the responsability of managing each teams line up to score the maximum points each week. and thats what it's about, right? all that prep that each owner/ coach does for the draft. does it stop there? no, it contiues through out the season(at least for me) and if i don't start the right people, then guess what? my bad. i do not deserve something for"nice try" and neither does anybody else in my view.
anyways, congradulations to will(eat a bag of dicks). i still think this year has been the best so far and everybody knows that i drafted the best team, made the most trades(some really good, some really bad) and am the coolest owner in this league(hehe).
this league depends on emotion, and desire just as much as homework and skill and frankly luck. sounds a little like something doesn't it? LIFE. |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 9:18:20 AM |
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more importantly.....
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| why is my fu still at 68.8???????? trades, log-ins, score what fucking more do i need to do???? 68.8, ridiculous. lets fix that "formula" first. |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 10:59:21 AM |
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Actually,
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| I think the most important question is why wasn't Caddyshack included in the Best Comedy Movie poll? |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 11:34:05 AM |
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The theory that Plexiglass is bullet proof has been resolved.
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But really, Factor. You haven't given the handgun safety workshop by now, this late in the season? Dude. Guns can be deadly, but idoits are worser.
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Posted - 12/2/2008 4:16:59 PM |
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Back to Victory Points - Also, new rule proposed!
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I applaud Billy's stiff upper lip, but I think it's absurd that he's not in the playoffs. I think the top scorer should make the playoffs every year. Granted, in the NFL and in other leagues these things sometimes happen. But I for one think we should take steps to avoid this kind of anomaly, regardless of the reason for it.
To that end, it's worth considering victory points. I'd like to see some data, however. Does it actually fix this problem? Does it insure the top scorer's place in the playoffs? Or is it merely a step towards making total points the primary or even exclusive determinant of playoff appearances? I'd like a little more info before making a big change like what Keith proposes.
As an alternative, here's a thought: I don't really care if the #3 scorer misses the playoffs, or the #4 scorer gets the #1 seed, or some other small quirk of the head-to-head system. I think head-to-head is a great system, and I don't mind the little quirks it creates. I just mind the big ones. So I propose as an option for consideration a new rule added to the books: TOP SCORER GETS A PLAYOFF SPOT. Why not set as a rule that the top scorer, if excluded from the playoffs based on head-to-head record, receives the 6 seed? Since this probably only happens once a decade, it changes very little about the league. But it makes sure that next decade's Billy doesn't suffer the same fate. Plus, it may give teams with bad records but good lineups a little more hope each year. Any thoughts? |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 4:32:38 PM |
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But what about the "FU"????
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| that needs to be addressed before i vote on any new rules. no, really. |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 4:51:46 PM |
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my thoughts are the same as Billy's.....
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Are you actually serious about making a rule that if youre the highest point scorer that someone with a better record would get bumped so you have a play-off spot? First of all, no one with a shred of self respect or even a modest set of balls would except a play-off spot without earning it fair and square. Secondly, with your proposal, if the same scenario happened next year I would get bumped even though I have more total points than 3 other play-off teams. Thats fucking ridiculous.
Billy's not keeping a "stiff upper lip", he's acknowledging that SHIT HAPPENS, he plays in a brutal division and THATS LIFE!! He's not whining little like a little bitch about it so no one else needs to be either.
peace and love, Will |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 7:40:56 PM |
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KUDOS WILL.
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Posted - 12/2/2008 7:57:50 PM |
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At this point in time
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| I'm with Bill and Will. And I can accept losing HTH most of my games by 12 points or less. But if I squeaked in on the other side and went 7-6 and made the 6th seed but Joe gets it for scoring the most points, I'd feel like quitting. Isn't my job as owner to win as many games as I can and keep out the team that scores the most points week to week? I don't want to play that team! And I've lost all my power as a player to keep him out...even if I beat Joe twice in the regular season. |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 9:08:35 PM |
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So you're saying you like the idea
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Seriously though, it was just a thought. It's withdrawn. Though I will say, it made me laugh to get a lecture on having balls from a guy who skipped the draft for his mother in law's party. Now THAT'S fucking ridiculous, Will.
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Posted - 12/2/2008 9:46:43 PM |
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touche, Gambler.......
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| 1-888-344-9756 is the National Rape Crisis Hotline, your probably gonna feel like calling come Sunday night after our game :-) |
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Maulers
Football Freak
997 posts
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Fu: 100.96 |
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Posted - 12/2/2008 11:34:32 PM |
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Is Ragnarok broken?
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I sure as hell don't think so. Why then this talk of "fixing" it? This has been the best and most fun year EVER!.
It's not about math it's about KICKING AZZ! |
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Posted - 12/3/2008 8:49:50 AM |
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while it is true that "ass" was at one point in time...
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| spelled "azz" it changed however in 1987 back to the old english spelling of "ass". just so you know kent. |
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